apple cinnamon and vannila

Discussion in 'DIY Flavours, Mixing, Recipes' started by crispernator, Oct 28, 2016.

  1. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Dec 9, 2015
    Hi all well this was my latest creation ,now i say that my own mixing is bad but i have to say i haven't made anything yet that is unvapable just most of them dont have anything outstanding in them and i think i know why .What i think i am doing is evening out the flavors by adding one flavor in the same strength as another and so not creating any overiding tone to the juices i am creating does that make sense ?The latest one has just that the apple is cancelling out the cinnamon as they are about the same and i am only getting a very small cinnamon note when i should be getting quite a strong one with a hint of apple ,i might leave the vannila out altogether as it doesnt seem to do much anyway .
    Adrian Grace and emu like this.
  2. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Jun 2, 2015
    Here's some tips, since you seem to be struggling.

    First, always mix a single flavor. Using just 1 concentrate to find out at what strength it tastes good on its own.
    By doing that you have a very good idea of how strong the concentrate is compared to others you want to mix with it.

    Second, mix in 5ml batches initially. This way you can mix 2 x 5ml amounts & combine them to make 10ml, this will save you time & gives you a chance to test 3 different flavor strengths, which will help you dial in the correct flavor concentration needed.
    For example mix 1x 5ml @ 5%, another 5ml @ 10%, test a few vapes on each, then combine equal amounts from each 5ml to test a 7.5% mix. If you need to go higher than 10% or lower than 5% to get the flavor right, then you can skip that last step & instead mix another 5ml at double (20%) or half(2.5%) strength to test.

    Third, mix 2 singles together.
    When you are happy with the flavor strength of your single flavor juices, mix equal parts of 2 or 3 together, to see how they taste combined.
    This will tell you if you need more of one concentrate or another in the blend.
    So suppose your apple needs 10% on its own & your cinnamon needs 5% on its own & when you combine 1ml of each the cinnamon is overpowering the apple, all you need to do is add more of the single apple flavor to the blend perhaps try 0.5ml amounts until you dial it in. Then suppose you discover you need 3ml of apple & 1ml of cinnamon, then to make the juice you want, you know you need apple to cinnamon concentrate at a ratio of 3:1 .
  3. Aqualung

    Aqualung Vagrant

    Jun 19, 2015
    Makes perfect sense, I reckon.
    Read somewhere once, a recommendation to use a 3:2:1 ratio for three flavours.
    I think thats probably too prescriptive, but the principle is valid
    Noe and crispernator like this.
  4. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Dec 9, 2015
    Thanks guys ill do what you say noe and just use one flavor to start with on its owni know once i crack this nut ill be on my way its just i havent got a big enough hammer yet .
    Maria and Noe like this.
  5. rupert

    rupert Crazy Chemist

    Jun 15, 2015
    NE NSW and SE QLD
    To add to what Noe has said, it is about layering to "try to" achieve multiple flavour tones and nuances in profiles.
    Generally, its a good idea to go into the mix with a strong idea of what the end product will be and reverse engineer it form there.

    As Noe has stated, having a working knowledge of your particular concentrates helps greatly here too, as this lets you know how strong a flavour will be (shine through or not) in a mix with multiple flavours.

    For example, for an Apple Cinnamon Vanilla, what is the main flavour?
    If you are going for a poached apple, then it is Apple. The tricky part is then testing which of the vanilla or cinnamon is the next prominent and etc etc.
    If you were going for a cinnamon danish with apple in it, then they would be reversed.

    As a general guide when developing a new flavour profile I follow a principle of reverse engineering.
    Ill give an example of the "Jam Dizzle" clone I am working on right now.

    Pick a total concentrate starting point. Here I am going for 15%.
    Now break this down into components staring with the main profile, followed by the secondary and tertiary flavours, and then additives.
    My initial recipe ended up looking like this:

    CAP Cinnamon Danish Swirl - 6%
    CA Sweet Strawberry - 5%
    FW Yellow Cake - 1%
    LA Cream Cheese Icing - 0.5%
    FA Marshmallow - 1.5%

    Here, the Cinnamon danish is the main profile, closely followed by the strawberry, and then with other subtler flavours added to increase the layering. Ended up being 14% total which was close to my original estimate.

    Pn a different recipe I am currently mucking around with, the profile looks a little different due to the potency of the flavours.
    Here is a breakdown of a Raspberry Custard:

    CAP Vanilla Custard - 8%
    INW Raspberry Konkentrat - 2%
    CAP French Vanilla - 2.5%
    FA Marshmallow - 2%

    In this example, the custard is the main profile. The next is the Raspberry, but as I know the potency of the flavour I am aware that 2% will be strong enough to give the recipe a strong hit.
    The vanilla and marshmallow are then there to increase the layering of the end mix, driving nuances that would not otherwise be there.

    Another trick to remember here is to add flavours that give a fuller flavour and mouthfeel. This is easily achieved with 0.5-2% custards, marshmallow, EM, creams or even sucralose. For fruits this can even be gained through adding other flavours like cactus or dragonfruit.

    If you post what concentrates you are using, and your initial recipe, I can have a look?
    Aqualung, Maria, Noe and 1 other person like this.
  6. crispernator

    crispernator Senior Member

    Dec 9, 2015
    Thanks rupert mate you certainly know your shit about mixing flavors ,i will try to make a different one today i will attempt to make a blueberry ice cream as i have a fair bit of the concentrate ill try your methods to see what i can do
    rupert likes this.

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