Battery safety & which is the best battery to use?

Discussion in 'Beginners' started by Noe, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. Snurry

    Snurry New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    I totally agree. In most cases the mod will outlast the battery. Waiting for a device to recharge is the worst, especially if the battery doesn't last a full day.

    I usually buy my batteries from VE cause I know they're a legit source, and I get some reward points that add up. Also they seem to be as cheap or cheaper than ebay. Can buy by the single, and pick up some wraps and a case from the same location too. Not to mention shipping is free as well over 50.

    My regulated favourite 18650 is Sony VTC6
    My unregulated favourite 18650 is Sony VTC5a
    For 20700 I prefer the Efest since they're easy to get and no messing around with the number of positive posts like the ijoys.
     
    Noe likes this.
  2. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    Personally, I still think the Samsung 30Q are superior to the Sony VTC6 for regulated vaping.
    The Sony VTC6 are rated at lower Amps (19A) by battery Mooch than the Samsung 30Q, which he rates at 20A.
    This means cell for cell the Samsungs can be run at slightly higher wattages than the Sonys can.
    Also some other interesting data is available in regard to life cycles of LG HG2, Samsung 30Q & Sony VTC6, from what I have read the HG2 has slightly better capacity (mah) per recharge after 300 discharge cycles than the Samsung 30Q. Both retain around 75% of their original 3000mah (ie 2250mah) after 300 cycles, the Sony VTC6 however fairs far more poorly retaining only about 55% of it's original 3000mah (ie 1350mah) after 300 cycles.

    So the VTC6 lose more capacity per charge/discharge cycle than the HG2 or 30Q cells do!
    Why does this matter?
    Well if you bought any of these cells for the higher rated capacity they provide (mah rating), for longer run times between charge & discharge cycles, then losing more capacity between cycles is going to see you needing to replace cells sooner.
    If your 3000mah battery lasts you a full day(24hrs) for example, then the Samsung 30Q after 300 cycles will still run for 18hrs, however the VTC6s after 300 cycles would only be running for 13hrs, this means you would need to recharge the Sony cell sooner & that in fact you'd nearly be recharging the VTC6 three times compared to the 30Q's two times after each cell had been through 300 charge/discharge cycles.

    Not least to mention that the price of the VTC6 from where you buy them is more expensive than if you were to buy the same amount of 30Q cells.
    Even after free shipping which would require a purchase of 4 VTC6 cells to qualify for ($51.80) Vs a similar number of 30Qs from at least 1 vendor I know of(also a legit source), even after adding express shipping costs would be cheaper ($46.75).
    The point is, not only are you paying more for the VTC6s compared to the 30Qs, you are also having to replace them sooner than you would with the 30Qs, which IMO, combined with the higher Amp rating still makes the 30Qs the best 3000mah cells available.
     
    Snurry likes this.
  3. Snurry

    Snurry New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    I'd be changing my batteries at about 300ish cycles anyway even if it was still holding 75% thats only 2250 mah left to play with. It runs at a slightly higher voltage than both the 30Q and HG2 too.

    Also I usually buy my batteries from vapoureyes because of their rewards program, prices, and ability to buy singles; and they don't stock 30Qs. I'm a sucker for sticking to what works for me as well and the vtc6 are better than the Panasonics I bought the first time I got into vaping by a long shot, and cost the same.

    Either way, thanks for the info. I don't think the difference is enough I need to worry about them. With two sets of vtc6's and them generally lasting one set per day thats a year per set.
     
  4. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    That higher voltage means absolutely nothing in a regulated mod, 40 W is 40W is 40W, no matter if you get there by 2V x 20A or if you get there by 4V x 10A you still end up with 40W of power running through your coil.
    However in a mech mod, you may actually feel some benefit from the higher voltage, although it will be very minimal.

    True 300 cycles is near to end life for a cell but at 150 cycles the Samsungs will still have 2625mah (approx), while the Sonys will have 2175mah (approx), so approx half way through their life cycles the Samsungs are clearly holding about 20% more capacity = greater run times. This in itself means the Sony's will go through their 300 life cycles sooner than the Samsungs will, in the long term you'd be using 5 sets of Sonys compared to 4 sets of Samsungs, over the same time period.

    Unless the rewards program you mention is going to pay for every 5th set of Sony cells, then you are paying a lot more than you need to be for batteries that don't run for as long, as for prices I have already pointed out that they cost more even with the free shipping.

    You're welcome for the info & feel free to use or ignore it, as you choose :)
     
    Snurry likes this.
  5. Snurry

    Snurry New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Noted. I might try them out next time I need batteries.
    Definitely isn't going ignored. I just think I'd be replacing 2 sets every 2 years just cause they degrade so slowly I barely notice the difference without being able to compare them to new cells.
     
    Noe and Rayjay like this.
  6. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    With a dedicated charger, that has a digital readout, like the one I have (the OPUS BT-C3100 V2), often they will have a function that allows you to see exactly how much mah has been put into the battery when recharging. The OPUS also has some other nice functions such as one that fully discharges & recharges a battery to find it's true capactiy.

    In over 5 yrs of vaping, I have noticed just when using particular cells that their performance starts to drop off over time, the run times become shorter. This effect is more noticeable with single cell or dual cell mods than it is with triple or quad cell mods, simply due to the number of cells which provide days of use anyway. However a single cell mod, which I was using very regularly at one point, that I usually would get just over a full day out of with a fully charged cell (I used the same 2 cells in rotation on it exclusively), within 6 months became less than a full day's use from a full charge, so the capacity had obviously dropped & in a relatively short time.

    The % of degradation with the VTC6's means that you will notice that drop in run time performance, much sooner than you will with the 30Qs & that you will have a need to recharge more frequently.
     
    Rayjay, Snurry and Flea like this.
  7. Snurry

    Snurry New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    Yea I have a OPUS BT-C3100 V2 too.
    I'll try em out next time I need some 18650s since I found them at supervapestore for a reasonable price. I'm still totally satisfied with the vtc6s though. Like I said, they're a million times better than my first Panasonic pair I have. They dont even last 1/4 of the day. I tried them in the aegis before I got some 26650s and they literally lasted 5 minutes each.
     
  8. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    How old are your VTC6's?
    Try putting them on a Charge - Test cycle , this will charge to full, discharge fully, then charge the cells back to full & you'll get an accurate measurement of the mah capacity at the end of the cycle.
     
    Rayjay likes this.
  9. DogMan

    DogMan Mutley

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    Both are good batteries, if you are happy with them, then stick to them.

    I find the lower voltage sag handy on dicodes and dna75 mods, since low battery comes in with the sag point in real time, not the resting voltage.

    So 30q give low volt warning around 3.5v resting, while vtc6 can go lower without cutting out
     
  10. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    I don't notice that at all on dual or triple cell regulated mods with the 30Qs, so I take it you're referring to mechs or single cell regulated mods?

    Edit: I use 25Rs in my mechs & don't use single cell regulated mods often but when I do I just use a 25R too, never tried with a 30Q.
     
  11. DogMan

    DogMan Mutley

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    :)
     
  12. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    Yep single cell regulated then, thought so, doesn't happen in the triple cell DNA250 I use.
    Also on the DNA 75, using Escribe software, you should be able to adjust when you get the low batt warning by configuring it for use with the Brand & type of cell you have in it, not sure about the Dicodes though.
     
  13. DogMan

    DogMan Mutley

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne
    Dicodes is on mod menu.

    30q might cut out at 3.3v then. And vtc6 at 3v with less drop.

    Both are good. Very little noticeable difference. If you need numbers off a charger to tell you there is a difference that you can't notice, its not worth worrying about. And snurry buys new every 300 cycles so no need to stress drop in CDR over time
     
  14. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    Sorry but I disagree, I know when I was using new cells & getting 24hrs run times I was happy with them, when the capacity (mah) dropped within 6mths & I was getting reduced run times I noticed it (this was with Samsung 25R 2500mah (new) BTW), using them in single cell mods.
    It meant Iwent from being able to put a new batt into my mod & be confident about having enough power to last a full day to having to carry a spare cell "just in case", which meant carrying a chunky plastic box in my pocket as well as bringing my mod along.

    I think if you had 2 new sets of cells, 1 set of VTC6 & 1 set of 30Q, used in identical mods, at the same wattage & rotated between them cycle for cycle, you'd soon discover that the 30Qs were lasting longer.
    I haven't had any VTC6's to test but my info is coming from the manufacturers' own sites & specs, so I have no reason to doubt it.
    I'm not saying that the VTC6's are poor cells either, just that they suffer more from capacity loss than the 30Qs do & that you will notice that capacity loss over time.
     
  15. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    Because I know @DogMan uses software that doesn't see edits to posts.
    Forgot to add to the end of that sentence : well before 300 cycles or even 150 cycles.
     
  16. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    Not the reason for suggesting he take a reading, more for curiosity sake, to see how real world use stacks up against the manaufacturer's claims.
     
  17. Snurry

    Snurry New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    I don't really have the time to drain and recharge to see what's still getting. I'd do that before I'm gonna throw em out but I'm perfectly happy with my performance.
    Battery life isn't just the variables of the battery. There can be a huge difference from mod to mod. I know the hexohm 3.0 lasts twice as long as the g-priv and thats with the screen turned off.
     
    DogMan and Noe like this.
  18. Snurry

    Snurry New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2017
    Location:
    Lismore, NSW
    So I did do a test cycle on one of the sets and after more than 4 months they're still above 2900mah
     
    Noe and DogMan like this.
  19. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    How many cycles do you estimate each cell that was tested has been through?
     
  20. DogMan

    DogMan Mutley

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2015
    Location:
    S/E Melbourne

Share This Page