INTERESTING ALTERNATIVE TO NICOTINE

Discussion in 'Juice Chat' started by Rayjay, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Has any one heard of this product Alterna Elixer which seems to be from the description an alternative and legal replacement for nicotine?

    Their product description is as follows:
    Alterna™ is a proprietary blend of botanical extracts that combine to deliver full spectrum support for moving away from nicotine. Our proprietary blend delivers two gentle stimulants plus support for anxiety, stress, appetite and detox. Everything you need to stop smoking and kick the addiction to nicotine while continuing to enjoy vaping!

    Alterna is designed to mimic the physiological effects people experience when smoking but without any of the damaging effects that nicotine has on dopamine levels.

    Website: http://www.elixirdistro.com/

    If it is good as they claim problem solved. No need for nicotine and the Feds have no legitimate excuse to tax it or customs to seize it. Nic free vapes will be just that Nicotine free I am very interested in this product and have emailed them in the USA.
     
  2. Katzmeow

    Katzmeow New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Location:
    Hobart-ish
    Wow, that sounds really interesting, thanks for sharing. There are a couple of things that would personally put me off trying it.

    One is that the flavour is described as having a sweet flavour, something I don't want in my menthol tobacco mixes.
    The only Australian made pre-mixed juices I've tried have been way too sweet for my taste, so perhaps other Aussies might like it.

    The other thing that would put me off trying it is that it says " Typical feedback is that Alterna has a more pleasurable flavor than nicotine. Multiple users have commented that the lack of a strong “throat hit” has allowed them to vape consistently without negative side effects. "
    My main reason for preferring nic in my juice is exactly for the throat hit, so a product that claims not to provide that hit doesn't attract me.

    Still, an interesting product and good to know there is an alternative for when legislation makes getting nic juice too hard. I look forward to hearing more about this product.
     
  3. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    I have had an email back from the vendor and the price of $35US does cover the freight to Australia. I am certainly going to try a sample 60 mls after we get settled at our new residence. The sweetness that you refer to @Katzmeow mostly IMHO comes from a too high a VG mix I do not know to be certain. VG is sweet naturally and I do not know how to drop the sweetness and I personally would be hesitant to vape anything lower that a 50/50 VG/PG mix. Perhaps others might know how to drop the sweetness of RTV Menthol e-juice

    Yes I read that Nicotine E-Juice now is being intercepted by customs in WA and at times in Qld and some one has said the NT is starting to be a pain. As to how this new alternate product goes remains to be seen
     
  4. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Having read some interesting reports on Instagram I think I will give this product a miss.





    This company declines to provide a MSDS and you cannot down load their so called white paper so I think they are bullshit.
     
  5. RC.

    RC. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney, Hills District
    St John's Wort (Hypericum) is a very useful herb.

    One just has to know how to use it.
     
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  6. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Thanks @RC yes I am very familiar with St.John's Wort, (Hypericum perforatum) however, as stated by that instagram contributor one indeed needs to know how to use it and also consult their physician prior to self administration. I did get the white paper from the vendor which due to a hick up on his website I could not down load. I do not know how to share a pdf file on this forum.

    My herbal also gives a whole list of other interesting herbal combinations but mentions to be taken internally and not vaped.

    These include: Coltsfoot, kava-kava, liquorice, lobelia, mullein, passion flower, shisandra,,skullcap tumeric and valerian.

    Alterna contains Green Tea, Yerba Mate, Passion Flower, St John’s Wort and Burdock.

    Burdock root is a blood purifier, lymphatic system strengthener, natural diuretic and skin healer. It also defends against diabetes, combats cancer, improves arthritis, helps treat an enlarged spleen and fights tonsillitis

    Yerba Mate and Green Tea have these benefits in common: High-antioxidant capacity/reduce oxidative stress. High amounts of minerals and vitamins (potassium, manganese, phosphorus, sodium, nitrogen, etc., and vitamins A, C, E, etc.) Promote healthy gastrointestinal tract

    Be that as it may, all these are for internal ingestion nothing is known of the effects of vaping these herbs.
    If any one is game to try it, then I would say take it to your GP and sus out any possible prescription dug interactions.
     
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  7. RC.

    RC. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney, Hills District
    I don't know that a GP would know much about herbs.

    I myself am also very familiar with herbs and such,( it was my full time job once prescribing in a clinical situation).

    Prescription medications mostly have their own side effects and there are drugs with their own side effects to combat the previous side effects, and on it goes, a linear form of medicine. Not belittling it just saying how it goes. Herbal medicine is actually a slightly different process than this.

    There is a fair bit known about herbs for inhalation and many are used this way. I have actually vaped many of those mentioned as well as others myself (not tried Hypericum though) as an experiment and I am ok:rofl:
     
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  8. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    @RC Yeah mate, I hate pharma drugs and use a very good herbalist.

    I managed to convert Alterna's MSDS or white paper as they call it and its a long rave if you and others are interested.

    What’s Alterna


    Alterna™ | Botanical Nicotine Alternative is a proprietary blend of botanical extracts that combine to

    deliver full spectrum support for moving away from nicotine while continuing to enjoy vaping.

    Our proprietary blend delivers two gentle stimulants plus support for anxiety, stress, appetite and detox.

    All the things necessary to help someone kick the addiction to nicotine. Alterna is designed to mimic

    nicotine effects without impacting dopamine levels.

    Alterna can be used in eliquids - providing consumers an effective alternative to Nicotine and full spectrum

    support for nicotine withdrawal. It provides juice brands an alternative to becoming a tobacco company

    and shops and DIYers a non toxic ingredient for house brands and hobbies.

    The blend can also be used as a general purpose ingredient for non smoker and non nicotine users who

    want more energy, less anxiety, appetite control and detoxification - providing manufacturers a bridge to

    the broader application of vaping to mainstream wellness.

    The well studied effects delivered by the herbal extracts we choose are documented in the pharmacopeia

    of botanical ingredients and have been studied for thousands of years in both ancient and modern

    medical practices.

    AlternaDescription

    The botanicals in Alterna combine to provide two gentle stimulants plus support for anxiety, stress,

    appetite and detox. We encourage you to research the ingredients we use in our proprietary blend and

    sample the product so you can experience the effect for yourself.


    PROPRIETARY BLEND :

    Green Tea, Mate, St. John's Wort, Passion flower, Burdock Root, VG, Deionized Water


    EFFECTS

    People generally experience a gentle stimulant effect offset by calming herbs then notice the appetite

    control and detox effect.


    BENEFICIAL EFFECTS

    Based on the known properties of the well studied herbal extracts we use, Alterna has the following

    physiological effects: Stimulant, Calming, Antioxidant, Anti-inflammatory, Detoxifying (Blood/Organs)


    PROPERTIES

    Contains - Xanthenes, Polyphenols, Natural MAOIs (anti-anxiety), Antioxidants, Vitamin C, Vitamin E,

    Potassium, Magnesium


    Value Proposition

    “Better with Alterna™”

    After a week or two of Alterna use, customers report that the "Alterna Effect" is better than what's

    delivered by nicotine eLiquids.

    Alterna™ addresses the physiological effects that many people desire on a daily basis - energy boost, mood

    support and detoxification. And, unlike nicotine eLiquids, the proprietary blend offers more than just a

    stimulant.

    The botanicals in Alterna deliver calming extracts that enable the user to really benefit from the energy

    boost without getting jittery, anxious or suffering other side effects of nicotine. There are two additional

    extracts that are known to assist detoxification - helping the body clear toxins from the blood and organs.

    And, we are all aware of the negative side effects of nicotine. Even if many want to deny them. The fact

    that Alterna provides the support it does without affecting dopamine levels is truly amazing.

    Again, a full spectrum solution for consumers who want to move away from nicotine and continue

    vaping for the long term.

    Alterna| LEGAL & TAXES

    What is the regulatory and taxation landscape surrounding Alterna™?

    ● We believe it will be very difficult to classify Alterna-based vaporization liquids as tobacco products

    as we do not fall under the guidelines for an ENDS.


    ● CA BOE has stated that our products do not fall under Prop 56 and are not subject to tobacco

    Taxes


    ● Extracts are all recognized as herbal supplements by the FDA under the Dietary Supplement Health

    and Education Act (DSHEA)


    ● The FDA has said they will evaluate non-nicotine eLiquids on a case by case basis

    ● We are not a registered tobacco company and do not sell nicotine products


    ● Ideally, we’ll be classified as an herbal supplement or aroma product with no “sin” taxes


    ● FDA could come and have us register as an OTC Botanical Drug with cost being far less that those

    for new tobacco product


    ● To have the product removed from the market the FDA has to prove it is harmful and we have

    been delivering these products for over two years with no reports of adverse reactions


    ● We'll follow FDA guidelines for marketing herbal supplements


    ● The FDA could look favorably upon a product that weens people off of nicotine


    The Science Behind Alterna

    Prescription for Herbal Healing

    A lot of our research and learning has come from “Prescription for Herbal Healing”, the definitive source

    for choosing the optimal herbal therapy. From Phyllis A. Balch, the trusted name in natural healing and

    Stacey Bell who consulted the largest and most authoritative American and European sources and

    databases to ensure up-to-date scientific information on safety and efficacy.

    It includes Information on more than 200 herbs and herbal blends ranging from well-known items, such as

    ginseng and St. John's Wort, to less familiar remedies as well as Chinese and ayurvedic herbal

    combinations.


    https://books.google.com/books/about/Prescription_for_Herbal_Healing.html?id=xSyXZwEACAAJ&hl=en


    Chinese Herbal Medicine

    A medicine system developed in China more than five thousand years ago, the herbs used in Alterna are

    well studied to say the least.

    For centuries, doctors have compiled detailed information about the pharmacopoeia and placed great

    emphasis on the protection of the patient. Adverse reactions can occur with any form of medicine.

    However, in the case of herbal medicine these adverse reactions are rare.

    According to the Institute for Traditional Medicine, “more than three hundred herbs that are commonly

    used today have a history of use that goes back at least 2,000 years. Over that time, a vast amount of

    experience has been gained that has gone towards perfecting their clinical application.”

    http://www.itmonline.org/

    According to Chinese clinical studies, these herbs that have been added to the list of useful items over the

    centuries, can greatly increase the effectiveness of modern drug treatments, reduce their side-effects, and

    sometimes replace them completely.

    In this case we believe they can effectively replace nicotine and provide lasting benefits that keep vapers

    engaged long after they stop smoking and without selling them an addictive, sometimes toxic substance.

    Vaporization

    When used properly, personal vaporizers, ultrasonic diffusers, nebulizers and CPAP machines are safe and effective for administering a variety of active ingredients. These devices use vaporized water to deliver ingredients including essential oils for aromatherapy, steroids for asthma and breathing treatments for infant croup.


    A nebulizer (ultrasonic vaporizer) is a delivery device used to administer medication in the form of a mist

    inhaled into the lungs. Nebulizers are commonly used for the treatment of cystic fibrosis , asthma , COPD

    and other respiratory diseases or disorders.


    http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/18/1/228


    Nebulizers break up suspensions into small aerosol droplets that can be directly inhaled. This is the exact

    same process as when a personal vaporizer uses a heated coil (at the proper temperature) to break up

    aerosol droplets and deliver nicotine, cannabis, and now botanicals via Inhalation.


    Composition of Ingredients During Vaping

    Vaporization does not heat the active ingredients in a formula to a level that would cause a chemical

    composition change. The molecular structure of the botanical is not altered when administered via

    vaporization nor is it altered during ingestion.


    Therefore, the structure absorbed into the bloodstream is exactly the same whether it is contained in

    liquid (ingestion) or steam (vaporization). “Intramolecular forces (bonding forces) exist within molecules and influence the chemical properties.


    Intermolecular forces exist between molecules and influence the physical properties. We can think of H20

    in its three forms, ice, water and steam. In all three cases, the bond angles are the same, the dipole

    moment is the same, the molecular shape is the same and the hybridization of the oxygen is the same.

    However, the physical properties of H20 are very different in the three states.”


    https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/mcat/chemical-processes/covalent-bonds/a/intramolecular-and-i

    ntermolecular-forces


    So, vaporization atomizes the active ingredients without changing their molecular composition. These

    ingredients are suspended in water droplets the same way they are carried during ingestion. They do not

    change form and are passed into the bloodstream exactly as they would be if delivered via ingestion or

    diffusion.

    That allows us to draw a correlation between the safety and efficacy of herbal extracts that are used via

    ingestion or diffusion and the safety and efficacy of the herbal supplements delivered through

    vaporization.


    Inhalation

    The average efficacy of substances inhaled is 2-3X the efficacy of ingestion. Substances taken orally must pass through the stomach and go through the process of digestion before they can be absorbed into the bloodstream. Therefore, extracts that are directly inhaled (vaporized) are 2-3X more effective than when ingested. Ingestion is both unreliable and inconsistent. Inhalation is a consistent, reliable, and nearly instantaneous method of administering a variety of active ingredients.

    According to the scholarly article The Lungs as a Portal of Entry for Systemic Drug Delivery , “inhaled

    (medicines) have been used for over 50 years to treat airway disease and are in development or being

    considered for the treatment of many other lung diseases…


    A number of companies are in advanced clinical trials with inhaled insulin, and a variety of large and small

    molecules are under investigation as inhaled formulations for systemic applications. For thousands of

    years humans have inhaled a variety of substances for systemic effect (primarily as smoke), and now the

    medical establishment is starting to realize the significant potential of this route of delivery.”


    http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1513/pats.200409-049TA


    AlternaMIXOLOGY

    New formulas can easily be created from existing 0mg eLiquids. Slight changes may be required to

    account for the concentration of the extract blend. Alterna has a pleasant, natural sweetener flavor that

    can offset your need for sweetener in your formulas.


    Formula 15

    We prefer the effect of adding 15% Alterna to an existing 0mg flavor formula then adjust concentration up

    or down to control effect.


    Alterna blends well with formulas using mainstream flavor profiles - typically Capella - and will provide a

    slight natural sweetness to your blends. It is not intended to compete with your flavor profile but some

    mixologists may prefer to account for Alterna as a flavor component of a formula.


    Typical feedback is that Alterna has a far more pleasurable effect on flavor than nicotine. Multiple users

    have commented that the lack of a strong “throat hit” has allowed them to vape consistently without

    negative side effects.


    Concentrations

    DRIP

    15% - Similar to a 3mg in terms of stimulant effect, mood support, appetite control and detox


    TANK

    15% - Similar to 4mg in terms of stimulant effect...

    20% - Similar to 6mg in terms of stimulant effect...


    CLOSED

    25% - Higher concentration to account for lower absorption


    Devices

    Alterna-based vLiquids can be used in Diffusers, humidifiers and Vaporizers.


    Retail Price Point

    Vaporization liquids featuring Alterna will be priced similarly to existing nicotine liquids and maintain that

    price point without having to account for PMTA costs or additional “sin” taxes.


    Use Cases and Testimonials

    1. Help you move away from nicotine

    2. Help you continue to enjoy vaping


    KAREN

    After three days of vaping her favorite eLiquid with Alterna™ instead of nicotine, Karen's husband let her

    know that she had been vaping a non-nicotine eLiquid and broken her addiction to nicotine.




    WILLIAM

    William had been vaping 3mg nicotine heavily for two years and had been a frequent smoker prior to

    using vaping to quit. After two years he decided to kick the nicotine habit using Alterna. After about a week of vaping Alterna he tried 3mg again and felt sick from the effect. He jumped back onto Alterna and

    has not looked back.


    AARON

    A heavy 3mg all day vaper, Aaron has cut his nicotine consumption in half by mixing in Alterna eLiquids.



    Market Test

    Elixir Distribution has provided tens of thousands of bottles of botanically infused Elixirs containing Green

    Tea, Mate, St John’s Wort, Valerian, Ginseng, Peppermint and Kava in our widely available Epothecary and Speakeasy Elixirs.


    For the more than three years that we have been on the market, we’ve had no complaints of adverse

    reactions from vaporizing these botanicals. We hear daily about the beneficial effects of our products and

    have a large community of followers who provide us with amazing testimonials. Please see our feed on

    Instagram | @elixirvapeco


    APPENDIX

    Descriptions of Botanicals

    YERBA MATE

    Yerba mate has been used as a base for herbal medicines for centuries, and the plant’s benefits and

    therapeutic properties have recently been verified by scientific studies.

    Yerba Mate helps stimulate focus and clarity, boosts energy and is traditionally used to support weight loss programs that include a balanced diet and exercise.

    Yerba mate contains vitamins A, C, E, B1, B2, Niacin (B3), B5, B Complex. It also contains minerals such as Calcium, Manganese, Iron, Potassium, Magnesium and Zinc. Additional Compounds include Carotene, Fatty Acids, Antioxidants and 15 Amino Acids.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4344557/


    GREEN TEA

    Green tea is used by many to improve mental alertness and acuity. It’s a known source of physical energy. Studies have found that green tea is helpful in preventing stress and chronic fatigue, improving skin and reducing inflammation.

    Natural chemicals – polyphenols – are thought to provide anti-inflammatory and anti-carcinogenic effects.

    Green tea is a great source of antioxidants and it encourages weight loss. In many places it is used to treat stomach disorders, vomiting, and headaches.


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2855614/


    BURDOCK

    Burdock root has been valued across continents for thousands of years for its ability to purify blood and

    cool internal heat. Internally and externally, it has potent anti-inflammatory and antibacterial effects on

    the human body.

    Recent studies also show that burdock contains phenolic acids, quercetin and luteolin, which are all powerful, health-promoting antioxidants.


    Learn more in this University of Michigan study:

    http://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/hn-2057006#hn-2057006-how-it-works


    PASSION FLOWER

    Passion flower is best known for its relaxing and calming effects. Multiple human and animal studies have

    confirmed it’s effective at supporting a balanced mood without harmful side effects. Studies have found

    that while prescription medications work faster, they also produce problems, including dizziness and

    job-related impairment. Passion flower is far more gentle.


    Combining passion flower with other calming herbs can increase its potency. A randomized,

    placebo-controlled study revealed that a combination of passion flower, valerian, and St. John’s wort had

    positive effects on mood without causing cognitive impairment.


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11679026


    ST JOHN’S WORT

    Significant scientific evidence shows that St. John’s Wort is helpful in treating mild depression, and its’

    benefits are similar to that of MAOIs. Millions of people use St. John’s Wort as a natural herbal alternative

    for elevating mood and reducing anxiety. Studies from reputable research centers report that St. John's wort is more effective than a placebo and equally effective as tricyclic antidepressant drugs in the short-term (1 to 3 months) treatment of mild-to-moderate major depression. Experts continue to debate whether St. John's wort is as effective as SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors).


    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/174928.php
     
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  9. RC.

    RC. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney, Hills District
    Yep.

    Also check out S. American Mulungu bark which apart from many beneficial effects on various organs and is anti inflammatory and mildly sedative also uses nicotine receptors and can reduce the urge. I have vaped it and I liked it too.

    I experiment a lot on myself as I like to get to know things personally.
     
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  10. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    You and me both @RC I might even get up the courage yet to try this Alterna stuff I do not take any form of anti depressants and should be safe with St.John's Wort.
    As to others well, there apparently is a warning label on the product will not know till I get one.
     
  11. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    I'd meant to make a post on this earlier, but didn't because my memory of the events was hazy. It still is, but given the continued interest, I'll weigh in with the fragments I can recall.

    It was about six to ..ten months ago that it caused a minor stir on Twitter. Some of the people I know that are more 'researchy' looked into it and called BS on just about every claim the company was making. While I would have few qualms about vaping (or smoking) any number of herbs (including Damiana, Coltsfoot, Mullein & Datura - a powerful anesthetic & hallucinogen) , I'd steer clear of this stuff on principle. I do not trust the company that makes it.

    FWIW. :shrug:
     
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  12. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Thank you all that replied to this thread. Dunno what I think of the company that makes it. Still of mixed feeling about any herb that may or may not help with kicking stinkies. My nicotine intake is zero when not hassled or stressed. I started vaping at 24mg/ml and now when stressed will only use 4mg/ml. All I can say is Nic vapes helped me to totally quit smoking. Will further discuss this product with my Aussie herbalist acquaintance. As to my GP, had a chat to her last night and she just shrugged her shoulders and said that many drugs are derived from herbs. Its not the danger of herbs or drugs its how people use and abuse them.
     
  13. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    She is a gem. :thumbup:
     
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