San Fransico USA Bans all flavored ejuice sales

Discussion in 'Research, Health and Legal' started by Noe, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. emu

    emu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Location:
    Chorkerup Rd W.A
    Grumpy Old Grump Rayjay

    Belated happy birthday mate ..!
     
  2. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Not in the least Grumpy....Is it any wonder that Aussies refer to the Ninny Nanny Yanks as Septic Tanks. For my vape $ Yankee go home. Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi! Oi! Oi!

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
     
  3. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    The loss of the flavors in America could devastate the Australian vape industry as well. Let's join the dots..
    Besides flowing on to other US cities, there are a lot of organisations with heavy funding from Big Pharma and the Master Settlement Agreement (which depends on cigarettes sold) that are trying to destroy the vape industry. They are calling on the FDA to ban 'kid friendly' flavors (which is just about anything other than 'tobacco flavor'), and Trump's appointee to head the FDA, Dr Scott Gottlieb, has listened to them very closely in the past.

    If they're successful, it won't be long before the ANTZ in Australia will be baying to have vape flavors banned in Australia.
    As do I, but hey, guess where most Oz juice manufacturers get their raw flavors for mixing?

    And if you're thinking "no problem, I'll just get my flavors from .. China or wherever". Well, India, Australia and others have been pressuring the FCTC (of the WHO) to 'clamp down' on vaping as well. I expect at the upcoming COP8 (the 'conference of the parties' - nations that signed the FCTC agreement) will likely discuss adding limits or prohibitions on flavors within the FCTC. Both the WHO & FCTC have been historically very anti vape, because they see pharmaceutical companies as being their 'partners'.

    If that happens, it will be the closest thing to vapeageddon that could logically happen. And it would be world wide, not just Australia.

    So, do you fancy going to the supermarket to try and find flavors free of diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, cinnamaldehyde.. for your vape juice? Because that's the worst case scenario of how this might play out.

    Even if you don't give a toss about anyone else, don't make the mistake of presuming this won't affect you.
     
    Rayjay, jslJustin and RC. like this.
  4. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    @The Vaper There are many sources of flavours available that can be used to flavour e-juice. As long as you know what Humectants are used. I have experimented with NZ flavours used for food and beverage flavours and have found the results satisfactory. The ones I have tried use PG as a Humectant and that is considered safe. If you do experiment with food flavours, which most concentrates are , make sure to avoid lipid based ones. Pay strict attention to the list of ingredients of the flavour and check the additive codes codes. You can find out about food additives here http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumer/additives/additiveoverview/Pages/default.aspx

    Yes I have looked at supermarket flavours and as I have said above did make sure there were no diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, cinnamaldehyde

    The biggest problem with most concentrates / flavours (and that btw, can apply to tobacco flavours) is that thus far, no one has been able to predict what the long term effects of inhaling these flavour is. I have been vaping now for neigh on 5 years and so far have had no adverse effects to any.

    Currently I am experimenting with with a Cherry Bourbon concentrate from NZ which uses PG as a Humectant and contains Whisky and Bourbon flavours, water, caramel colour cherry flavour, and contains milk products and gluten. Ok this may not be suited to gluten intolerant people but for me this is fine.

    Now, I have ordered concentrates from Juice Factory and other sources, as have many others. Does JF labels contain the list of ingredients used? Or for that matter any other concentrate retailer?
    How safe are those concentrates if we wish to be truly pedantic and know just what it is we are vaping? Do the concentrate retailers provide those that want to know a MSDS?

    As to vapeagedon, the chances of that happening is as I see it 50/50 Big Tobacco and Big Pharma have container loads of their devices ready to go just as soon as Australian legislators get their fingers out of their proverbial butts.

    The current proposed ban on kiddie flavours is understandable as some people and there have been reports of this; are careless in storing their e-juice and kids have got hold of it and smelling nice have drank it. Alas, these careless people are the ones that have caused this dilemma.

    Am I in favour of a kiddie flavours ban? well to a point yes for the reason stated in the above paragraph. You might also remember in years gone by candy look alike cigarettes were also banned. I certainly do not want to see kids take up either smoking or vaping. Vaping was to all intents and purposes to help smokers to get off stinkies. Not as some form of new trendy past time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
  5. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Just to add to the above post, I have also read that our nemesis Chapman is whinging about e-juice not having proper labelling especially when it comes to nicotine content, content. When I first started vaping I did import nic juice from China until I discovered NZ and other closer and better sources. One juice in paricular, I ordered was for 12mg nic, when I tried to vape it I damn near threw up and had a nic od. When tested it was 36mg. Wtf.. incorrectly labelled. Never in my life have I smoked or vaped 36mg products. Did the vendor care? Not in the least !!!!! Yes they were sent the test report.
     
  6. Snidely_Whiplash

    Snidely_Whiplash Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Lurking in the shadows behind you
    On the up side, San Fransisco may have just turned into an emerging market for mail order flavour doublers !!!
     
    Rayjay likes this.
  7. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    LMAO Now we can charge them exbhirbitant freight.
    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
     
  8. Snidely_Whiplash

    Snidely_Whiplash Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Lurking in the shadows behind you
    [​IMG] he he
     
    Rayjay likes this.
  9. Charles Vaper

    Charles Vaper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    [QUOTE="Now, I have ordered concentrates from Juice Factory and other sources, as have many others. Does JF labels contain the list of ingredients used? Or for that matter any other concentrate retailer?
    How safe are those concentrates if we wish to be truly pedantic and know just what it is we are vaping? Do the concentrate retailers provide those that want to know a MSDS?[/QUOTE]

    Just wanted to chime in on the subject of ingredients, moreover, the listing of such.
    When it comes to concentrated flavours produced by reputable flavouring manufacturers such as FlavourArt, their formulas, and thus ingredients, are one of the most closely guarded secrets of any industry.

    Many flavours contain up to 800 various compounds, distillates, additives and so on, very few are under 500.
    It would be impossible to list all the ingredients on a bottle.
    MSDS has been changed to SDS, or safety data sheets, and it is the discretion of the manufacturer as to what ingredients are listed. (there are certain ingredients such as flammable, poison that must be)

    We will never know most of the ingredients in concentrated flavours. Nor will the FDA or TGA.

    Flavouring retails such as Juice factory and Vape Train do not make concentrates, therefore they can only provide what the manufacturer provides. If one chooses to email the flavour manufacturer for an SDS, they will generally provide one, however, it may or may not disclose the information you are after.

    In terms of custard notes such as Diacetyl - We can look to see if these are added in a flavour, but many produce these naturally. All flavours such as vanilla, creams, custards, most bakery and dessert contain either naturally formulating or added custard notes. Ones that don't, cannot provide a true representation.

    Hardly any reputable manufacturer is adding additional Diacetyl now, they are mostly using Butyric Acid, AKA Butanoic Acid. Even Acetyl Propionyl and Acetoin are slowly being replaced.

    Of the 40 or so flavouring labs I am aware of, 7 of them are transparent regarding Diacetyl (custard notes) and Chiral molecules - FlavourArt, Flavorah, Flavor Apprentice, Capella, Molinberry, Liquid Barn and Real Flavors.
     
    The Vaper and Rayjay like this.
  10. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Thanks @Charles Vaper , totally agree with your post. Then by the same token, before any juice or product can be approved by the TGA or FDA for that matter, they will need a full SDS?
    I remain sceptical if they will ever get one nor will Nic Juice ever be approved by the TGA as a NRT product.

    The concentrate I was experimenting with was most interesting and I did get a limited reply from the manufacturer in NZ. The Humectant used was PG and having conferred with @rupert, (For those that do not know him, he is a very senior chemist) we both are of the opinion that it was safe to use. My first mix was @10% and that nearly blew my socks off. I have found using this one @ 1-2% produced a very pleasant vape.
     
    Charles Vaper likes this.
  11. Charles Vaper

    Charles Vaper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    My understanding is that the TGA nor the FDA demands a complete list of ingredients. There is an official "Trade Secret" law in the US which protects a complete listing of ingredients (among other things or industries) and I am certain similar protections exist here. However, I will call the TGA tomorrow and ask them, I'll reply back.

    On another matter, it's Hump Day. Does this really mean that man is supposed to hump his partner? Now, now. I am referring to the act of carrying something, like groceries from the car. Ah...well, sounds good.

    Happy Humping :sillygrin:
     
    The Vaper and Rayjay like this.
  12. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Trying to remember my last humping of the last pleasant type. As to humping heavy objects and I do not mean the wife, I have done enough in the last two weeks unpacking two x 20 ft containers after moving to our new residence.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
     
    Charles Vaper likes this.
  13. Snidely_Whiplash

    Snidely_Whiplash Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Lurking in the shadows behind you
    This flavor ban can have some very unfortunate consequences.
    Oil based flavors, (that can be found in any supermarket), if inhaled in e-juice can be deadly.
    Use the wrong ones in your e-juice, and you run the danger of "lipoid pneumonia", among other things.
    DO NOT, & I repeat, DO NOT use flavoring from your local supermarket.
     
    Noe, The Vaper and Rayjay like this.
  14. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Thanks Snidely. Rupert already clued me in on this.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
     
  15. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    Rayjay likes this.
  16. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Good news...There goes the business opportunity to flood the US Vape shops with Aussie flavours lol.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
     
  17. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    Noe likes this.
  18. Noe

    Noe Adorably quirky ... QUIRKY Noe! VCA Approved Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Location:
    Noewhere
    If you read the entire article, all it says is that the senate has adjurned until Jan 2019, it does NOT say the bill was defeated, just that it has been postponed.
     
    margyb and Rayjay like this.
  19. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Duck River NW Tasmania
    Their Senate has better holidays than ours. Oh well stock up on your favourite flavors in view of a possible Vapageddon or Flavorgeddon.
     
  20. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    You nailed it Noe. I did not even open the link. :p

    It's odd the peeps on Twitter seem to be celebrating this development as though God herself had granted them a miracle. Maybe they didn't read it either. ;)
     
    Noe likes this.

Share This Page