Discussion in 'New South Wales' started by Donna, Aug 11, 2015.
Same to you too Charles.
And I enjoyed the cuddle.
Donna, Charles, Did you manage to talk to anyone in politics, like Greens?
There was a speech by a politician saying what a great job tobacco control had done in oz and how the sector could learn from it. Was rather odd. Charles spoke to him and he is anti vapor products. Have to work out exactly who he is. Many looked aghast at his comments. Everyone there realised that nearly all their clients smoke. Half of them were going out for a fag during the night. Afterwards there were quite a few smoking and asking us about them.
Good morning Dr Danko,
I will be putting together some thoughts on last nights event, along with doing a little more background work.
The event was worthwhile and I managed to have a conversation with people such as Michael Moore from PHA,
Ann Symonds, Vice President, Australian Drug Law Reform Foundation, and a couple of others.
Mr Moore told me he has a non favourable attitude to e cigs in general but, I believe he is somewhat open to gathering substantiating, empirical evidence.
He told me he hopes to be proven wrong.
Perhaps the positive, (from my perspective) that came out of last nights event is this...
I feel I have an opportunity to keep in touch with a few; there's a willingness to listen and a desire to be kept informed on various vaping issues.
Communication is where it starts; even a willingness to listen can provide opportunities.
I plan on getting with Donna ASAP over the phone to solidify our joint thoughts/report. Probably be tomorrow though.
I have a family member out of surgery at Concord Repat, so will catch up tomorrow or Monday.
That's great Charles! Up until now they have only heard one side of the story. Now they know there is another. You both have done great! A lot of anti-vapers are just misinformed. It seems like a huge dam wall against the tide of vaping, but the wall is made of many rocks, some of which are loose and can be loosened by our personal engagement..It will be a hard slog at first, but what the UK has taught us, where as little as 2 years ago Public Health was generally against vaping, is that one rock loosened makes a couple more rocks loose until more and more come away and the whole dam breaks wide open. It's a great move forward to get any engagement at all. Alex's harm reduction group is a great place to start because the idea of vaping is exactly the same as harm reduction with any other "vice" behaviour and they understand that already, they just need to come around to the idea that the same concept applies to recreational nicotine.
Here's a couple of pics from yesterday.
Our Vape Meet and a sneak picture of some of the distinguished guests at the dinner event. More info to follow in a few days..
They look like people who know how to have a good time, just my type.
Yes, I was thinking that. Not the usual stuffy bureaucrats and prohibitionists.
Oh thank you Jennifer!
Personally, I never really considered myself a stuffy bureaucrat...
Not you silly! The other photo, which is presumably from the mysterious official meeting/dinner you and Donna attended.
Not a mystery Jen. This is the event we went to. http://adlrf.org.au/events/
Oh cool, looks like fun! Was there much discussion about vaping?
Not in the speeches Jen but we got support from everyone except one person (as described by Charles). Management of the event told us to openly vape in the room where the dinner speeches were held. Charles and I were the only vapers. Lots of people were going outside to smoke.
Interestingly, the reaction we got to box mods with evods on top was amazement. They all expect to only see tubes.
I've got the email of one of the workers at the "safe injecting room" in Sydney, she's a smoker and was really interested, I'm going to email her with the Steamers details and where she can buy nic from.
I was going to ask if you converted anyone! At least people involved in drug reform would not be too brainwashed by the anti-vaping rhetoric in public health. Good job.
Yes I know, was just being silly.
I'm good at that.
I thought this was the most interesting story I heard all night. No names of course.
A person whose drug of choice is heroin was there. She was a highly respected person in the room. She could be termed a high functioning user as she has a full time job and a mortgage.
She said to me that on her 'rating scale of pleasure', injecting heroin would be a 10/10. Now she doesn't use heroin, she uses methadone. BUT much to some health professionals horror, she injects it. Injecting methadone to her would rate at 5 or 6 out of 10 and keeps her happy and stable without relapse. The generic method of dispensing methadone (liquid) did not keep her off heroin and would be rated at 2 or 3 out of 10, she always relapsed.
We discussed how injecting methodone for heroin users is similar to vaping for smokers. She compared pharmacy methodone in little plastic cups to nicotine patches. Works for some but doesn't keep most at a level of happiness and has very high rates of relapse.
The only difference is; methadone is not safer or physically less harmful than pure heroin (in fact some say it's more toxic because it's a synthetic), although it's obviously better than street heroin. Whereas vaping is much less toxic than the habit it replaces.
Methadone is considered harm reduction because it protects the user from the dangers of an illegal street drug habit (in theory!). I never understood why they prescribe a less effective synthetic version of heroin when heroin itself in a clean form is very non-toxic to the body. As 'harm reduction' they could just medically monitor and prescribe heroin. Methadone is more convenient for medical professionals because it's effect is longer lasting so they only have to administer it once a day. Humane drug reform would mean legalising and regulating the use of relatively harmless heroin through prescription. It's worked very well in Portugal.
I may be biased about methadone though because I only see the failures (at work) not the successes.
WOW Jen, I had no idea that methadone is no safer to the physical body than Heroin. You learn something new every day. I guess I'm typically stooged by the thought that if a Doctor or Chemist gives it to you it must be better for you.
Would I be right in saying that Methadone is cheap compared to street heroin for both the user and the Gov?
It's cheap compared to street heroin, but medical heroin and methadone are both cheap as chips. Methadone is not cheaper than pure heroin....as far as I know.
Prohibition made heroin both expensive and dangerous (on the streets).
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