Tasmania is going to be regulating personal vapourisers as tobacco products

Discussion in 'Tasmania' started by vapetrail, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    As said they should just shoot the 2 legged bastards. Not seen a politician yet that I beleive or trust.

    Sent from Taptalk. Vape On & be happy. Live & Let Live Blessed Be!
     
    The Vaper likes this.
  2. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    A friend of mine had a discussion with DHHS in Tasmania and this is what was reported to me:

    “The regulatory statement on DHHS website pertaining legislation in Tasmania is not law, just educational guide lines and they are not prosecuting anyone for noncompliance. The vendor in Tasmania that still displays his product pictures was notified but he chose not to follow the guide line.

    No one will be taken to court over it. DHHS also said that a website constitutes a public place.

    They also went on to say that liquid nicotine is a poison and in tobacco it is not a poison”

    =========================================================================
    Liquid Nicotine is a posion? What sort of nicotine is then used in Nicorette sprays?
    Nicotine in Cigarettes is not a poison? What about all the other crap in them?
    Even our arch enemies the Cancer Council agrees that cigarettes are an insidious slow poison ffs.


    Now I did ask if the person my friend if the DHHS were prepared to put this in writing. Um...No

    So can some one please tell me, apart from having Nic Juice in your possession or selling Nic Juice, just wtf is legal in Tasmania and wtf is not.
    I also tried to speak with DHHS in the past and the office of the Minister. I give up. As I see it, do as you will is the whole context of this law. Nothing has changed.
    The DHHS themselves do not seem to know.


    When one thinks about it, the DHHS has issued educational guide lines which they say is not enforceable law. However if a vendor and there are now 4 of them from what I hear in Northern Tasmania and one in Southern, if one is not following the guide lines, then maybe their licence will not be renewed next year.

    As it stands now, vendors in Northern Tasmania have complied to the guide lines. They have removed their pics of products from their websites. The one vendor in Southern Tasmania has not. This IMHO creates unfair advantage as the northern tassie vendors may be loosing sales by being compliant to the guide lines.


    I myself went to a cafe the other day, had a nice iced coffee. I sat at the side of the cafe outdoors, vaping quite happily and others some tables away were smoking contently. I had one of those number signs put on my table waiting for my order to be brought out to me. The guide lines say that you can vape outdoors but where you are vaping or smoking no food or beverage may be served. Bullshit, nearly every damn cafe and fast food outlet and even pubs serve food and drink in their outdoor areas where smokers and vapers choose to indulge. No one gives a shit.

    @vapetrail @margyb
     
  3. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    Now I am really and truly confused about this. In Tasmania vapes have been classified as tobacco products. Ok this is insane but then, wtf. If this is the case and B&M vendors cannot display their mods or e-juice etc., as they are "smoking products" then please explain to me how is it that I walked into a tobacco shop and saw Hooka's (bongs) and smoking pipes on clear display. Excuse me, are they also not smoking products?

    I understand that the new Tasmanian regulations are aimed at stopping under age people from taking up vaping.
    No B&M shop that I know in Tasmania will allow an under age person into their store and neither will tobacconists.
    So can some one please explain to my befuddled brain why tobacconists can display implements for smoking and their associated accessories and vape B&M vendors cannot?

    What is the difference between a pipe used for smoking tobacco and a mod for vaping E-Juice?
    Remember that Mods have also been clasiffied now as smoking aids as is a tobacco pipe.

    I honestly think that this is a matter that needs to be raised with the Dept of Fair Trading.
    If the display of tobacco related devices as classified by recent regulations in Tasmania is prohibited, then the same regulation should be applicable to tobacconists B&M stores.

    I had this discussion with one B&M vendor in Tassie and was told Hookas (bongs) are considered as decorative vases ffs. I for one can think of more attractive vases for my flowers :wall: :mad:

    @vapetrail, @margyb
     
  4. vapetrail

    vapetrail Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Launceston
    Hi Rayjay, that's correct. There is no clear definition of what constitutes a bong. Although that won't be too hard to make it law to say that a bong is a glass piece with a bowl on the other end and a hole in the middle. But because the government isn't threatened by losing money on their business, they don't care. Unfortunately we live in a capitalist society where our lives essentially don't matter, they create an illusion for us to think they care, it's what keeps the wealthy to stay wealthy. Say for example, we have the highest prices for cigarettes, $20 - $30 per packet of cigarettes where as in the US in some states it's about $8.00. They say the high prices forces people to reconsider continuing to smoke, but really it just means more money in the governments pockets. The graph shows that it worked for several years but now it's plateaued. Also plain packaging and removing display of cigarettes didn't show any real evidence that it reduced the rates of smokers so thats just a waste of time and effort to enforce. The government makes more money while we have to suffer, can't afford to smoke and not allowed to vape.

    http://www.afr.com/opinion/columnis...f-cigarettes-just-doesnt-work-20170615-gwrit2
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
    Rayjay likes this.
  5. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    Very true what you say @vapetrail it is not defined what constitutes a bong. PMSL. By the same token, it seems that the police clearly know what a bong is and if you get pulled up and they see it on your back seat for instance, you can be charged for possessing an implement for smoking a prohibited substance.

    The police know what it is, but it seems the DHHS do not :wall:
     
    vapetrail likes this.
  6. vapetrail

    vapetrail Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Launceston
    I know right!
     
  7. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    Also @vapetrail, why can a legal pipe for smoking tobacco can be displayed and a mod cannot that is what I cannot understand. The sale of a smoking pipe attracts the same GST as does a mod. Only Tobacco attracts the excise that the govt do not want to loose.
     
  8. vapetrail

    vapetrail Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Location:
    Launceston
    I have no idea either. :scratch:
     
  9. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    Me either and as I said it it a clear case for the Dept of Fair Trading. :cloud:
     
  10. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    @margyb
    A reply in pdf form has been received from the Director of Health and Human Services; Dr. Mark Veitch.
    No it is not illegal in Tasmania to be in possession of low levels of nicotine e-juice provided you hold a prescription for the same from a registered Australian medical practitioner. It is not an offence for a registered medical practitioner in Australia to issue this prescription.

    However, the director goes on to say that it is the professional responsibility of a prescribing doctor to ensure informed consent of the patient, and to consider the benefits and risk of a product that has not been registered by the TGA, and therefore lacks their through and favourable evaluation of quality, safety and efficacy.

    So in conclusion, yes you can order from Nicopharm, and make sure you have a copy of the prescription sent to you. Or if your GP agrees to provide you with a prescription you can legally import up to 3 months supply from who ever. You must have a doctors prescription (Authorisation) to do so. Commonwealth law does not over ride state legislation in Tasmania. I can make a copy of this letter available If you want to PM me I can send it to you by email.
     
  11. The Vaper

    The Vaper I Vape ∴ I Am

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Location:
    Sydney 2016
    Actually the '3 month supply w/ prescription' law (the Personal import scheme) is commonwealth law. Great to hear that Mark stomped on the advice of the (rather confused, apparently) civil servants though.
     
    margyb likes this.
  12. margyb

    margyb Great Balls of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Location:
    Lindisfarne Tasmania
    Good to know and thanks for sharing Rayjay
    I will pm you my email as I would love a copy
     
  13. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    Email sent @margyb I do not know if this forum allows PDF attachments as Dr. Collin also has asked the following:
    "
    HI ............


    Could you please post the letter on the Forums. We need to spread the message widely.


    I have tweeted it as well and I will ask NNA to circulate it.


    Colin


    Conjoint Associate Professor Colin Mendelsohn

    School of Public Health and Community Medicine

    UNSW SYDNEY NSW 2052 AUSTRALIA
     
    margyb likes this.
  14. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    At the request of Dr. Collin Mendelsohn who needs no introduction I am sure, I reproduce the pdf letter that was received from the Director of Tasmanian Health and Human Services Dr. Mark Veitch. A Pdf of this letter has been forwarded to Margy, by email together with correspondence with Dr. Collin. Margy is a Board Member of the NNA and perhaps she and her fellow board members will further know how to spread this information.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Department of Health and Human Services
    GPO Box 125, HOBART TAS 7001 Australia
    Ph: 1300 135 513
    Web: www.dhhs.tas.gov. au
    ^
    ^ r
    Tasmanian
    Government
    Contact:
    Phone:
    Facsimile:
    E-mail:
    File:
    Dr Mark Veitch
    (03)61660657
    (03) 6222 7409
    mark.veitch@dhhs.tas.gov.au
    Colin Mendelsohn
    Conjoint Associate Professor
    School of Public Health and Community Medicine
    Email: c. mendelsohn unsw. edu. au

    Dear Colin

    Thank you for your letter of 10 November 2017. I apologise for the delay in responding. You ask about
    the legality in Tasmania of possessing low concentrations of nicotine for use in an e-cigarette or personal
    vaporiser for smoking cessation.

    You asked three specific questions, answers to each follow.
    I. Is it an offence for a person in Tasmania to possess nicotine for use in a personal vaporiser for
    smoking cessation if the person is in possession of a prescription issued for that person by a
    registered Australian medical practitioner?

    No
    2. If it IS an offence, what is the legal basis for that offence? Specifically, what law and clause?

    See above.

    3. Is it an offence for an Australian medical practitioner to issue a prescription for nicotine for
    therapeutic use according to Tasmanian law and if so, what exact law and clause is it that overrides
    the ability to do so under Commonwealth law?

    No
    As you wrote, the exception from Schedule 7 - Dangerous Poison of the Poisons Standard enables (under
    Schedule 4 - Prescription Only Medicine) a 3-month supply of nicotine to be imported for personal use as a
    therapeutic product prescribed by (most likely) a medical practitioner

    I note the professional responsibility of a prescribing doctor to ensure informed consent of the patient, and
    to consider the benefits and risk of a product that has not been registered by the Therapeutic Goods
    Administration, and therefore lacks their thorough and favourable evaluation of quality, safety and efficacy.

    Yours sincerely
    (signed)

    Dr Mark Veitch

    Director of Public Health
    30th January 2018
     
    Katzmeow, emu and margyb like this.
  15. Rayjay

    Rayjay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Anywhere I hang my hat
    I had a real laugh last night when an email arrived in my inbox from our health minister Michael Ferguson MP. , canvasing my vote for the Liberals in Tasmania. Now, when the idiotic legislation for vaping hit Tasmania last year, I did try to write to the honourable member for clarification of the legislation and you guessed it folks got no reply. I then phoned his office and his staffers did not even want to discuss the issue as they were too busy. Yeah right it wasn't election time now was it.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    @margyb @vapetrail


    My reply to the honourable member was thus:

    Thank you for your email.
    I would never consider voting for your party for several reasons.
    My partner a registered nurse of a celebrated 43 year career was forced into early retirement at the age of 62 as the stress levels @ R.H.Hopsital. became unbearable due to idiotic rostering of staff, nurses being asked to work nearly double shifts due to staff shortages and absolute apathy of management when it came to various issues.

    Explain to me Mr. Ferguson how is it that on two occasions when I was transported to your R.H.H. by ambulance at the instigation of my GP with Pneumonia I was sent home as no beds were available and my partner had to take compassionate leave to care for me at home?

    Please Explain to me Mr. Ferguson how is it that so many surgical cases are being cancelled due to lack of beds and the so called code yellow, an alert stating the hospital was in a critical condition for patient beds was abolished. Was it because you as Minister had to sign off on a code yellow alert and that would damage your "good standing" as a Minister for Health? '

    This now is called a Code 4 and now again it has been escalated once more to a code yellow.

    Please Explain how is it when it comes to major holidays like Easter and Christmas no on call staff are rostered and floor coordinators have to rip their hair out trying to find emergency call in staff should the need arise? Very common in Surgical Theatres

    The above are major issues affecting your current portfolio, one reason why no member of my family will vote for your party.

    The secondary issues are that when I tried to write to you regarding Tasmanian Vaping Legislation, I did not even receive a courtesy of an acknowledgement.
    The Dept of Health and Human Services took several months to clarify the situation and in the mean time their compliance officers in Northern Tasmania went "Gung Ho" enforcing what now turned out to be "Guide Lines only" to physical vape retailing stores in so far as they were prohibited to display non nicotine products in their store and not even allowed pictorial representation of the said products on their websites. The vendors that did not comply were threatened to have their ludicrous licences revoked or not renewed. This was in Northern Tasmania Mr. Ferguson, and vape stores did comply. By the same token in Southern Tasmania I note with interest that the remaining vape store still has a website clearly displaying pictures of his products. This sir constitutes unfair trading impediment to the people in Northern Tasmania.

    Is Southern Tasmania (Hobart region) a separate state and the same vaping regulations inapplicable there?

    Please explain Hon. Minister why Tobacconists can display illegal implements for smoking prohibited substances on their shelves and freely sell them to the general public all be it over the legal age whereas if a member of the public purchased one of these devices and police found it in their possession he or she could be arrested for having a device for use with a prohibited substance. Yet these devices are clearly displayed in full view of the public from the street though clear glass windows and if you do not believe me I respectfully ask you to visit Cignal Tobacconist in Argyle Street Hobart opposite the R.H.Hospital. By the same token legal vaping devices without any content of any prohibited substance Nicotine or otherwise are to be hidden from public view and cannot even be demonstrated by the vendor to intending legal age customers. To this piece of asinine legislation Mr. Ferguson, I say it is pure BULLSHIT and I make no apology for the use of this word.

    The final issue why none of my family will consider voting for your party was the recent fiasco regarding the cable cars for Mt. Wellington and how it was signed off on by the minister responsible without even the Hon. Premier knowing a thing about it as presented on the media the other night.
    One is left wondering as to who's pockets were contributed to in that fiasco. We are well aware of Big Tobacco and Big Pharmaceutical companies putting pressure on all political parties to block sensible vaping legislation and allowing adults to make their own informed choices as to vape, smoke or do neither.

    So Sorry Minister, you and your party has done their dash with my family and hell will freeze over before our voting members will consider marking the ballot paper in your parties favour.

    Sincerley

    xxxxxxxxxxxxx
     
    emu likes this.

Share This Page